Shows & Blogs
Insiders
Featured Pages
Related Links


InBox OutRage
Posted 9/17/2012 4:28:00 AM

I arrived at work this morning to find my inbox full of outrage at the firing of school teacher Lynden Dorval for giving zeros to students who deserved them.  Barb is appalled that a school board would even have a no zero policy.  She questions the quality of education.  Barry writes in support of a teacher with 35 years experience, and against a policy that sets slacker students up for failure in real life.  He says honest marks provide the information a student needs to find ultimate success.  Gord says this teacher should be commended.  Rob says our education system has lost its way.  He says Lynden Dorval made a moral choice over just following orders.  Ron says the no zero policy sacrifices the education of children.  Fred calls the firing a mean-spirited way of trying to protect a bad idea.  He’s changing his education tax to the Catholic school board.  And Murray gives the public school board a zero for firing Lynden Dorval and says he will work to fire them in the next election.  Others want to draft Lynden Dorval for a member of that board next year.  If you agree with the firing, I have equal time for you.  Let me know what you think.

Note: If you wish to leave a comment, please keep it no longer than my editorial, unless you wish us to edit it. Your comment will not appear on the blog until it has been cleared by Bob.

 You have until 1 o’clock tomorrow morning to collect 630 CHED Insider Trading points by following the URL below & entering the code word: 105

 Click here to enter the code!
Posted By: Bob Layton  

Leave a comment:

showing all comments · Subscribe to comments
Comment Like
  • 23
  1. Richard posted on 09/17/2012 06:52 AM
    I like the idea of Mr Dorval running for school board election. At least we can put one of them out of a job.
  2. Bill posted on 09/17/2012 07:12 AM
    I think that voting out our present school board is a great way of showing them what we think of their way of teaching our kids how to fail in life. I sent a couple of e-mails to them telling them of my displeasure of their policies but of course they never even acknowleded that they recieved the e-mail. I wonder if they are just ignoring my thoughts on the topic or don't they care.
  3. Richard G posted on 09/17/2012 08:27 AM
    What do Ross Shep teachers give students who don't complete the work in CALM (Carreer and Life Management)?
    1. Bob $ posted on 09/17/2012 11:52 AM
      @Richard G Sorry Richard,....back to skool,...you missspeled CAREAR!
    2. Bob $ posted on 09/17/2012 11:57 AM
      @Richard G What do Ross Shep teachers give students who don't complete the work in CALM (Carreer and Life Management)?

      A political career and a golden handshake and pension!!!
  4. Bob $ posted on 09/17/2012 09:14 AM This comment was edited by a moderator at 10:36 AM on 09/17/2012
    Mr. Dorval should run for the school board,...he would win "hands down!" By the number of votes he received in your blog, it's a natural.
    Then invite "like minded" people that he knows, to join him, and clear out the ones that are currently occupying those board seats.
    What other way do you grade a student who provided "nothing" for a test other than "0" - "Zero" - "Nada!". It you gave them the lowest letter of the alphabet,...it would start with a "Z".....Zero starts with a "Z"ed....maybe this board doesn't know that!?!
    This school board wants to redefine the meaning of NOTHING! Maybe they think they are ALL Einsteins,....I DO NOT!
  5. Lil posted on 09/17/2012 09:59 AM
    Dear Mr. Layton,
    As a fromer teacher in the days when teachers taught, I have never been so disgusted with the current "dumbing down" of students by politically motivated left wing idiots. What in God's name are they developing in encouraging students to sluff off and/or cheat? If grades are given for work not done, what will these newly minted imbeciles contribute? Will they even be ABLE to contribute? The whole episode is horribly disgusting and outrageous. The principal ought to be fired permanently, not Dorval. Dorval is a hero.
    Lil
  6. Pat Hall posted on 09/17/2012 11:48 AM
    As a former teacher, I have watched the "dumbing down" in stages of the educational system . I can't believe that a student would never get a zero for any reason. But does it really matter these days when all students pass? Nobody fails and nobody gets a zero. Students can choose what course to drop out of, even if it's a core subject. Why bother going to school? The teachers are too afraid of losing their jobs to disagree with a parent; they can't fail a student; and they can't give out a zero for work not done.

    I am amazed that a student can even erase a zero, if a teacher were allowed to give one, and do the assignment when they want. It's not fair to the students who did the work on time to let another student do an assignment or write an exam later whenever they want. That gives them a real advantage over the students who did the work on time because the answers leak out and the late student can benefit from finding out what was expected for the assignment or what questions were on the exam.. Life is not like that.

    My theory is: if you can't do an assignment or write an exam when the other students are doing it, then you get a zero and no second chance. The only exception should be if the student is sick and has a medical statement from a doctor. Dorval has even allowed students to do an assignment or an exam later and he will erase the zero. In my humble opinion, even that is too slack.

    Let's elect Dorval for the school board and let's help him find another job.
  7. The Infidel - Mr. John posted on 09/17/2012 11:56 AM
    It is now described Lil,....as "Learn-ed Helplessness" ,....and it is alive and well in our school system, and our future society,...and God help,...future leaders!
    Do a reading, writing, and arithmetic test for students that finish coming out of grade 12,...and you will get your,...well, maybe,...you won't get your answers to THAT question!
  8. Gord posted on 09/17/2012 12:01 PM
    My feeling is that the Board has SO FAR left the decision of no zeros up to the individual school principals to whom they have given this decision-making power.. The Superintendant, appointed by the board, has supported his principal against an alleged defiant teacher -- thus sending a strong message to all principals and staff. The public, as am I , are mostly outraged by th Board's Pontius Piilot "official washing the hands" of this matter. Now a committee has been struck by the Board to "examine their assessment policies" going forward... The Board are politicians and can read the runes and know public opinion is against them. For that reason alone, before the next election, don't be surprised to see the no zero policy changed. Alas, Dorval, who was correct in his stand on principle, appears to be the scarifice for progress to be made in this area. As he is a former Teacher Excellence candidate, I feel Dorval should hold his head high as he goes into "enforced retirement" knowing that he has made a positive difference in the lives of his students in the past, and hopefully, iif the policy is changed, in the future as well.
    1. The Infidel - Mr.John posted on 09/17/2012 06:43 PM This comment was edited by a moderator at 06:54 PM on 09/17/2012
      @Gord Mr. Dorval is truly the sacrificial lamb here in this issue. He seems like a very likeable gentle man, who chose, God help him, to use his long established standards to set a precedent, a principle that many long standing "standards" were founded on.
      What Mr. Dorval did however, was to override the "dumbing down" syndrome that is "built into" our school system.
      Don't teach what is not in the books, don't use outside materials, don't give your own thoughts or opinions, don't do "anything" that the "dumb downers" don't want you to do or say. That is the same principles that are used by the Chinese, Russian, Korean, and other regimes have used for decades and centuries to "control" their masses.
  9. Paul posted on 09/17/2012 01:31 PM
    I’ll be the voice of dissent, I suppose; I actually agree with Mr. Dorval being fired. In this instance, I don’t believe the discussion should be about the appropriateness of the no-zero policy. If Mr. Dorval disagrees with that policy he had the option to work to change that policy, perhaps as others suggest by running for a position on the school board. Instead he chose to ignore school policy and follow his own preferences. What would happen if everyone did that? Should we all ignore rules as we see fit and simply do as we please with no ramifications? We’re all so worried about these students – what sort of example do we set by showing them it’s all right to break the rules?
    1. The Infidel - Mr. John posted on 09/18/2012 09:33 AM
      @Paul And now, I'll be the Voice of Reason "here". What absolutely brain-dead idiot came up with this NO ZERO rule "in the first place".
      Paul, just how do you think that all our laws, rules, statutes, and the like came into existence? It is because many chose, in history, to use their own brain cells and buck the "establishment" for a more reasonable method.
    2. Margaret posted on 09/18/2012 10:27 AM
      @Paul Paul are you a member of the present school board? or you just not thinking?
  10. Pat Hall posted on 09/17/2012 02:30 PM
    I wanted to add something about "teachable moments".

    Whenever students write an exam or hand in an assignment, the best possible "teachable moment" happens when the teacher hands back that assignment or exam, preferably as soon as possible after the assignment or exam has been handed in. I used to make certain that I marked the assignments or exams the evening of the day that they were written. That way the students are still involved in the exercise and the results mean a lot. It also means that they learn from their mistakes. As the teacher goes over and reviews the assignment or exam, the correct answers and approaches are discussed. You can't get a better "teachable moment" than that.

    With some people doing the assignments on time and others not, those teachable moments are lost forever. There is no way that a teacher can review, give the correct answers, etc. when maybe only half the class has done the assignment.

    So besides the fact that no zeros are given; all students pass; you can do an exam or hand in an assignment whenever you want; you can drop any course, even core courses, at any time, most "teachable moments" are lost in our school system as it is today.

    Are there any students left doing anything on time and doing a good job of it? I'm afraid that after a few times of doing an assignment or exam on time, as a student, I'd feel like I'd been cheated.
  11. Kevin Anderson posted on 09/17/2012 07:19 PM
    I agree with all the comments I heard on Global TV news on September 15th. On the one hand, we are trying to teach people accountability and on the other, we provide do-overs and no zeroes. Preposterous! Bad Optics! Wrong message! Kids are in school to learn. One of the things they should be learning is about norms and standards of behaviours required by society. Lynden Dorval should be applauded rather than fired for his stand on this issue. I get that he was insubordinate. However, he was right. The school board needs to demonstrate that discretion is the better part of valour by backing away from a bad policy followed by a worse decision (the firing). Come on folks!
  12. Elijah posted on 09/17/2012 08:14 PM This comment was edited by a moderator at 03:58 AM on 09/18/2012
    Bob - Did you see the EPSB Sept 11 meeting? CHeck out what this retired teacher who worked at Shep had to say - It's Part 3 of the meeting at 11:04 of the video. This should be reported on. http://www.livestream.com/edmontonpublicschools/video?clipId=pla_0a121add-3242-4d71-872b-ceb372e74e73&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb

    Bob replies: EVERYONE should watch this - from 11:04 right to the end - it's only a few minutes and it is most informative.
    1. The Infidel - Mr. John posted on 09/18/2012 10:11 AM
      @Elijah Upon seeing this video, I feel that Mr. Dorval has a very strong case to SUE this school board and administration for wrongful dismissal,...and I for one would support him in his efforts to do so.
      It is very clear from the school board chairman's dismal mundane comments after these people made their comments that they (school board) "could give a flying **** what these people )(teachers) or anybody has to say!"
      It is now very clear why Mr. Dorval and others who support him feel the way they do about this policy and feel helpless in their efforts to rectify a poor policy,...which it appears hasn't actually been established clearly,....by ANYBODY!!!
  13. Margaret Stone posted on 09/18/2012 10:15 AM
    I believe the School Board should all be fired. What a stupid bunch of idiots making decisions about our childrens education. It's no wonder these kids entering college or university are unprepared. Mr. Dorval made the right decision in giving out "zeros" for unfinished or unsubmitted work. These undisciplined kids will not be prepared for other than a low level paying job unless they smarten up and change their ways now. Some teachers and parents are abandoning their responsibility to these kids. I believe Mr. Dorval should be named Head of the School Board next year. I would vote him in.
  14. pat davis posted on 09/18/2012 10:53 AM
    How does a parent know where their kid is in relation to every other kid if this system is in place?How can a University evaluate a student for admissions based on less than accurate information?I personally wouldn't trust any school/admissions application coming from a school with this policy.A university or future employer will give you a zero so suck it up and evaluate on the facts.On another note,this teacher has taught his kids a valuable lesson.Standing up for what you believe sometimes comes at a cost.Those with integrity carry through because it is right.Those without fire them for having integrity and being correct.
  15. agustin posted on 09/18/2012 02:26 PM
    public opinion has moved away from the real issue and somehow romanticized Mr. Dorval as a champion for education. I believe this teacher's actions were simply a defiance on following a policy he agreed to uphold the moment he signed a contract to teach with Edmonton Public Schools. His personal beliefs aside, I think Mr. Droval was obliged to follow the policies and procedures dictated by his employer.

    The moment he decided to act against said employer by acting in contradiction to what he was instructed to do (and implicit agreed to by having signed a contract and collecting the benefits of the position), he violated his terms of employment and he deserved to be fired. This would be the expected outcome of a similar situation at any other workplace. If Mr. Dorval had not been fired, a dangerous precedent would have been set, one that would signal that this particular employer allows it's assets to do as they see fit regardless of policies and guidelines.
  16. Kathy posted on 09/18/2012 07:01 PM This comment was edited by a moderator at 03:51 AM on 09/19/2012
    The real issue is that the school system is failing our children. Mr. Dorval had to go to extreme measures to point that out.

    Bob replies: Thank goodness another school (that gives zeros) has snapped him up.
    1. The Infidel - Mr.John posted on 09/23/2012 02:23 PM
      @Kathy Mr. Dorval..........................."100%"
      Edmonton School board.........."0"
showing all comments

Recent Blog Entries

BLOG ARCHIVE
<<May 2013>>
SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
2829301234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
2627282930311
2345678