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The Stupid Side
Posted 4/30/2012 1:54:00 AM

I had a Friday afternoon speaking engagement in Fort McMurray a while back.  The organizers changed my presentation to the morning, out of concern for my safety.  They did not want me hitting the highway at four o’clock on a Friday afternoon – too dangerous.  Even at one o’clock I saw the stupid side.  Who would try to pass 10 vehicles, the last couple going up a hill?  We were all doing the speed limit.  There are many blaming provincial twinning time for the latest tragedy.  I am not one of them.  They’ve spent hundreds of millions of dollars and the work continues.  The highway does not kill people.  Impatient speeders and unsafe passers, do.  Twinning just opens the door to even more speeding, and people still die on twinned highways.  As they prepare for more paving, they should install multi photo-radar units with serious Highway 63 surcharges.  Put the extra money  into the paving pot.  I know that won’t stop the speeders at first, but absent enough police to do the job, what’s left?  Please add your better idea, below.

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Posted By: Bob Layton  

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  1. Richard posted on 04/30/2012 06:07 AM
    They should have trip photo recognition. It is done in Europe.
    Break the journey into five sectione.
    A computer takes a picture of a vehicle passing, a hundred kilometers down the road photo radar takes another picture.
    From the time intervals the average speed can be workerd out.
  2. Bill posted on 04/30/2012 07:20 AM This comment was edited by a moderator at 07:26 AM on 04/30/2012
    If they put multiple photo radar on 63 with stiffer penalties, all every lawbreaker (thats seems to be the people that do the most complaining) will do is scream cash cow like for every other instance they install photo radar anywhere.

    Bob replies: But if they know it's there, won't they slow down while they scream, "Cash cow"?
  3. TheresaK_1474 posted on 04/30/2012 08:28 AM
    Way to go Bob - it's time someone had the courage to say what you have just said. We are becoming such a nanny state that we expect the Government to do everything for us and not have to think for ourselves.
  4. Noel Sanderson posted on 04/30/2012 08:40 AM
    When we have driver attitude like we now see in the City and on the Hwy, we must use a hard enforcement program to make them understand that the laws apply to them as well as others. - Example at hand, people parking in the NO parking spaces or filre lane only spaces in front of the major shopping centres in the cross walk or right in fromt of the out doors so that we must walk arround them. When I speak to the driver I notice that in most cases they are new Canadians and they will tell me that they are only there for a short time or waiting for some one, what is the big deal. They seem to think they have the right or are intitled to park in front even if it means causing inconveinence for others, including usolder or in wheel chairs.
    1. GFF posted on 05/03/2012 06:02 PM
      @Noel Sanderson Well said! Coming out of Londonderry, two cars parked in the emergency spots. As I was going to my vehicle, two security persons came by, walked past the illegal parked vehicles and continued on. I asked them "what about those cars?" They looked at me like - duh! They went back, spoke with the drivers and then continued on their merry way!
  5. Sue posted on 04/30/2012 09:11 AM
    Why wouldn't passing lanes every few miles be adequate? That's we all learned to use and they worked just fine. The road signs alreted drivers to to the distance to the next passing lane and we just waited until we got to them to pass. We drove all the way to the west coast like that years ago. I realose the increase traffic volume is an issue but it's also a lot shorter to Ft.McM.
    Put in 5 miles of passing lanes every so often and call it good, I say. Let's stop pandering to bad drivers!
    1. The Infidel - Mr.John posted on 04/30/2012 11:27 AM
      @Sue Sue,...it wouldn't matter if this was an 8 lane highway, 4 lanes in both directions, the majority of drivers that frequent that highway are just insane driving fools, with no regard for their own or other peoples lives.
      I don't even think that a twinned highway is going to help,...but a rail line from Fort McMurray, with passenger and freight services would. It could also be used to transport processed gasoline and other refined oil products, and keep the jobs in Canada (Ft.McMurray), instead of shipping them to China, the US, and even worse, down East to Ontario.
      Keep the jobs in Alberta....what's that expression,..."build it and the Chinese will figure out a way to copy it, without paying you a patent/copyright fee!"....sorry,...."build it,...and they will come!"
      With what those fools in Ottawa spent on the G8 and G20 two years ago,...it could have been paid for, and more that half way BUILT,... with money left over for Bev Oda to go grab a luxury hotel room and an orange juice!!!
  6. Dave H posted on 04/30/2012 09:38 AM
    Bob,Having driven hwy 63 many times as a trucker,I can say that I've seen and be involved in some "close calls".As a driving instuctor ,I believe that it is up to the individual driver the drive to the road,weather and traffic conditions.If driven that way,there would be a marked reduction in the amount of collisions.To twin the road will take years as it did for hwy 16 and hwy 43.Until then we will continue to see what occured a few days ago if drivers dont slow down and and treat that highway with more respect. Thank you.
  7. David W. Lincoln posted on 04/30/2012 09:42 AM
    Why not make it harder to get a driver's license? Oh, I forgot: driving is a right not to be tampered with.
  8. Gerry posted on 04/30/2012 09:43 AM
    All they need to do is put up construction signs every few miles with the speed fines doubled. You don't have to man them as we have all seen those signs on other roads with no one in sight.
  9. wendy posted on 04/30/2012 10:17 AM
    My husband drives this road at least once a week.He sees the idiots. It is not the road, it's the drivers There are plenty of places to pass, if you are so desperately in need to pass, just dont do it where you cant see! The last awful accident that took 7 lives need not of happened..
  10. RobertS_7974 posted on 04/30/2012 10:37 AM
    This one of the few times that I disagree with your comments, and that is your idea of the hwy 63 fix. I worked as a contractor for Suncor from 2000 to 2002 and the traffic was bad enough then. There were many accidents and close calls due to high speed and lack of passing lanes even back then. My wife and I often commented that 63 should be four-laned. There was a recognition from the Alberta government even then that the highway "should" be twinned, but you "as a high flyer hot shot reporter", should know, that is was all talk and no action. Heck, the government even talked of twinning the railway tracks to alleviate heavy truck traffic. You tell me where that idea is now.

    The hiring of sheriffs, addition of radar, laser, taser, etc and other temporary gadgets and ideas, to alleviate the "stress" on the RCMP obviously has not been the answer. I knew that 12 years ago. 4 lanes are. The highway project should have been "gong-ho" 10 years ago. Could you imagine the mayhem on QE2 if it was of the same condition as hwy 63? Good Lord.

    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a high speed 4 lane freeway is the answer for this hwy for the next 50 years. There have been countless lives lost on this highway and it will continue until the road is fixed, not just patched! The Alberta Government should get with the program and they are not! Hwy 28 to Cold Lake also requires 4 lanes. Redford, get with it!
  11. Bob S posted on 04/30/2012 11:05 AM
    The same "insane nuts" in their diesel powered massive pick-up trucks that drive over the speed limit on No. 2 Hwy, are the same nuts that are driving on that Highway 63. Even if you slow down to play it safe and try to stay out of their way,..you are still a candidate for getting involved in an accident, because as you say, they will pass 10 vehicles at a time with no regard for human life. Any beer bottle collector could make a fortune on that highway, if they could figure out how to pull off the highway without getting killed.
    I conducted an experiment a few years ago on No. 2 highway driving from Edmonton to Red Deer, driving 112 kmh on the left lane. I got more people passing on the right swearing through their windows, and giving me the finger, 2 people mooned me, 2 people tried to pass on the left shoulder,..but the response and the line up behind me at times 1/2 mile long was unbelieveable....I eventually gave up the ghost and pulled into the right lane,...cause these big rigs would pull right on your butt, threatening to run you off the road.
    The only way to create a speed zone on that highway (63) is to double/quadruple the fines every time you get a ticket on that highway....$400.00>800.00>3200.00>6400.00....with demerit points, and get these guys off the highway.
    In regards to twinning Bob,...the Highway to Grand Beach in Manitoba used to be a "killer highway deathtrap" on the summer week-ends until they twinned it. It is not accident free but the accident rate is way down from what it used to be...where I saw my first "dead people".
  12. JB posted on 04/30/2012 12:19 PM
    Bob, while i tend to agree with most everything you say, i can't say i agree here. Yes some accidents are created by stupid people, but the increased amount of traffic and use of Hwy 63 creates an environment where people do stupid things. It's mostly out of frustration while driving that road that these things happen. The traffic volume, wide loads, lack of passing, etc.. that creates an "environment of danger's stupidity"
  13. Joy posted on 04/30/2012 12:53 PM
    Personal invitations to court are always more of a deterrent than photo-radar tickets. They show up on your driving record and cost in other ways as well, like insurance rates. Speed enough and you'll be taking the bus. The RCMP and Sheriff's departments should have a blitz a few times, just like they did on Highway 2. I'm sure they could "borrow" staff from other locations to do it.
  14. Diana posted on 04/30/2012 07:12 PM
    Thank You Bob Layton!! Finally someone said it!!!!!! It is not the road that kills it is the Driver who is passing at the wrong place, speed, time.....ect.....People need to slow down - drive the speed limit and pass with due care and attention!!!
  15. BrianH_1314 posted on 04/30/2012 07:21 PM This comment was edited by a moderator at 03:57 AM on 05/01/2012
    Bob, you have this one wrong.
    I have been driving 63 since 2001 and in that time have had many near misses. The most recent was when a snow plough was coming towards me with wheels well into my lane. Our family got away lightly with a scare and a smashed windshield from the gravel he was dropping at high speed. The fact is that there is a concentration of idiots on this road. Even when it is twinned, there will be accidents as there are on any road. There will be far less accidents though and that is the reason for this outcry. So while you sit high and mighty looking down your nose and passing judgement from your safe vantage point, I think that you have completely missed the point with this one. I would like to see the change in your opinion if you had to drive down this hiway with your family a few times a year. Thank your for your support.

    Bob replies: I'm sorry you missed my point. I said there would still be accidents on a twinned road. See next comment.
  16. SheriA_6446 posted on 04/30/2012 07:34 PM
    My heart goes out to the families of the seven killed in this horrific accident. I am glad the politicians may actually start to take this stretch of road seriously, but when will they take the act of drinking and driving seriously? As the mother of one of the Beaumont boys killed last November, we can't seem to find a politician that treats this as a serious crime. Small fines for drinking and driving and light sentences for those who kill! I just wish the politicians would look at all the issues that put the public in danger as if it were there own loved ones! Harsh fines and sentences would make idiots think twice! Hitting people in the pocket book seems to be what works in this Country as it seems we put more value on property than human lives!
  17. Ron Diotte posted on 04/30/2012 07:49 PM This comment was edited by a moderator at 03:54 AM on 05/01/2012
    Whenever you news people report/describe an accident you never ever venture a possible cause for the accident ...what gives are you afraid and is it possible the court's have put a gag on you all ?? Why not for example stop calling accidents accidents or crashes and call them by their correct name e.g. mistakes because that is exactly what they are ! Thank you very much Bob and keep up the great work --- Ron

    Bob replies: Legal reasons can deter us from venturing a cause for the accident.
  18. Francis posted on 04/30/2012 09:12 PM
    I was first on Hwy. 63 in 1976 and have driven it many times over the years... In the early times driving on a Friday PM to Edmonton was known as the McMurray 500. The rush out of there was incredible and some of the things such as cashing their cheques along the road (and of course re-stocking the beer) was encouraged by merchants along the "race track" who made them buy something before cashing their cheques... it was lunacy then and it is lunacy now.
    Twinning the route would no doubt make it safer for them but I would almost bet that the death toll would NOT drop only now you would hear how they crossed the median and hit head on with somebody.
    The bulk of that road is not regularly patrolled... just the southern and northern 20 or 30 miles.
    The name of the game in Fort McMurray is "Hide and Seek for 5 grand a Week"... they just seem to get way too much money to spend on over powered vehicles and booze... and that's a problem not about to go away either.
    1. The Infidel - Mr.John posted on 05/02/2012 10:36 AM
      @Francis If you think the booze and the high powered trucks is BAD now,...just wait until they start sucking bitumen out of there through four or five pipelines...
      The death toll is just going to go way up from there. These guys who work up there in Fort Mac and live someplace south is just going to increase and so will the deadly traffic.
      I have actually heard of guys setting land speed records driving down from Fort Mac in record times....same guys do Calgary to Edmonton,....in 2 HOURS!!! Then they pick up their beers or booze and head off to Fort Mac.
      It is absolutely insane,....but so are the housing prices and rents there,...so these guys drive back and forth 4-6 times a month; they are paid for their fuel and time anyway,...so they do it at literally "break neck" speeds!!!
  19. RaynaB posted on 04/30/2012 11:31 PM This comment was edited by a moderator at 03:59 AM on 05/01/2012
    Bob I have to seriously disagree with your thoughts on Highway 63. May I ask you how many times a month you drive that highway? Unless your answer is at least twice then as far as I'm concerned you don't have the privilege to make the comments you made. The Oilsands propel this province as well as this country - you know you can't disagree with that. The PC government gave the go ahead for the twinning back in 2006 and what a shame it is that to date only 33kms have been twinned! Do you have any idea the sheer magnitude of equipment that is transported on that highway on a daily basis? Do you have any idea how narrow some stretches of the highway are? Basically Bob you have said - all of you men and woman that work in Fort McMurray your lives don't mean much!! Let's set up multi photo radar units with serious hwy 63 surcharges and let's now make you pay a higher price for traveling on Alberta's deadliest Hwy. Head on collision's happen because of unsafe highway's! Shame on you Bob. You need to be more responsible and do a little more research!

    Bob replies: To suggest I said the lives of the people who work in Fort McMurray don't mean much is a little bit of a stretch. You and I will have to agree to disagree. I don't buy that narrow highways cause head-on collisions - driver impatience does.
    1. The Infidel - Mr.John posted on 05/02/2012 10:41 AM
      @RaynaB "all of you men and woman that work in Fort McMurray your lives don't mean much!!"
      In Bob's defence,....the nutcases that are driving up and down that highway at supersonic speeds and without any kind of care or caution are the ones that are saying that!!! Not Bob Layton!!!
      "I'm going to drive this here truck at whatever speed and pass as many people I bloody well feel like and what the **** are you going to do about it!?!?!?!?! Hey Hacksaw....pass me another beer!"
  20. Anthony posted on 05/01/2012 04:44 AM
    Your editorial of April 30 hit the nail on the head. This highway doesn't kill people, but irresponsible and careless drivers do. Everyone is always in such a hurry that they will take risks and blatantely disregard the rules of the road resulting in accidents like the one we have just seen. And twinning this road will only result in it becoming a high speed autobahn and the accident rate may not drop as much as everyone thinks unless there is strict enforcement of speed limits.
  21. Bob Oswin posted on 05/01/2012 06:48 AM
    They built the Alcan(Alaska Highway) in approximately 6 months in 1942. It is more than 1700 km and over some of the roughest ,muskeg filled territory on the planet. The Goverment whining about costs and difficulty is just that -whining. They on the other hand, endorse spending 2 billion on carbon capture that wont do diddly.
    Back to your observations Bob. The province it rife with agressive and ignorant drivers. They are not all on the 63. Mandatory driver testing and reschooling traffic violaters before letting them back on the road is probably going to get the most bang for our bucks. A 200-300 dollar fine is nothing to these people making 6 figures.
  22. murray posted on 05/01/2012 07:59 AM
    Highway 63
    The highway works best around 1am,no traffic
    Did you know there is a second highway to fort mac Most people don't
    Perhaps the Government of AB should promote this fact.
    and encourage people to take the scenic route thru conklin
    1. Bob $ posted on 05/03/2012 03:05 PM This comment was edited by a moderator at 03:47 AM on 05/04/2012
      @murray OK,..I give up,...what is the other highway there from the south?

      Bob replies: They tell me take 881 from lac la Biche.
  23. Denzel Jones posted on 05/01/2012 01:12 PM
    Bob, the only way to stop this is to restrict how easy it is to obtain a driver's license. Many people drive like they got it as a prize in a cereal box.

    The truck commercials say that you paid $60k for the biggest, baddest mofo on the road and you've earned the privilege to drive like one. These people will crush your puppy and knock over your grandma to get to the light 3.2 seconds faster than you. They'll also go through a red light because traffic only started to move, so they only have to LIGHTLY tap their brakes instead of a full stop. They've earned that right because they're special. The truck commercials and their mommy says so.

    Harder driver's exam? No, we can't have that. That would require common sense and personal responsibility. It's not my fault ever, Bob. There's always someone else or thing to blame.
  24. justme posted on 05/01/2012 02:32 PM
    Twinning the hwy may not stop every accident but it would have prevented this one where 7 lives were taken. The whole reason for this discussion. It's called preventative measures. And though they don't always work for every circumstance, the results in the long run are much more effective than trying to police stupid drivers as you called them. Try telling the friends and family of these people that if this hwy was twinned it wouldn't have made a difference. I'm sure they would disagree as the passing vehicle would of had a passing lane to switch into instead of the oncoming traffic lane. May thier families find peace.
  25. Single Vehicle Commuter posted on 05/03/2012 12:46 AM
    Although I agree speeding is an issue, congestion is the primary problem and twinning should be the primary solution. There are speeders on all highways, but no other highway has the carnage of 63 because no other route has been so overwhelmed by congestion. Secondly, dawdlers are just as much a problem as speeders. We hear anecdotes of drivers passing whole columns of cars at once, but the concerned citizens neglected to mention what was happening at the front of that column. There you would have some senior hunched over her steering wheel going 20 km/h below the limit on a perfectly dry sunny day. Drop a flake of snow on the pavement and said individuals drop their speeds further still, despite having perfect traction and otherwise unhindered control. These are the people who cause rush hours, road rage, and a good portion of the headlines, but despite their perpetual status at the front of the parade known as gridlock, ironically their driving records are usually perfect. They should not be.

    By all means increase police presence and speed enforcement, but enforce speed limits from both extremes, too fast and too slow. The critical importance of maintaining orderly flow of traffic must be instilled in motorists from day one. We must become just as incensed with dawdlers as we are with speeders. Legally police can write tickets for exceeding the limit by as little as 1 km/h. The exact same graduated fines should be written for those who go below the speed limit, beginning with 1 km/h below the limit. This should include license suspensions and court appearances for extreme cases of crawling, just as it is for extreme speed. It is time to stop pandering to politically correct solutions and address what is a huge portion of the problem. There is also such thing as too slow.
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